A quote for you all to chew on for the night

“Theologically speaking – and listen well, for I rarely speak as a theologian – it was God himself who lay down in the form of a serpent under the Tree of Knowledge when his days’ work was done: that was his way of recuperating from being God… He had made everything too beautiful… The Devil is just God being idle on the seventh day…”

~ Friedrich Nietzsche, Ecce Homo

11 thoughts on “A quote for you all to chew on for the night

    • He was certainly a bit of a nut, but his philosophical theories and religious criticisms have always interested me. I was browsong Ecce Homo as a before-bed read and happene dupon this passage. I had forgotten his analogy, but I do like it. Just an offer of a different way of thinking and interpreting.

      • I’ve not studied Nietzsche. The quote seems comedic to me. I suppose he was serious. Its just not a philosophical point that makes any sense to me. If it is logically supported, I wouldn’t know being as I’ve not read the text.
        Did he draw this conclusion from an argument in his work?

        • Oh, it’s certainly meant to invoke at least a hint of humor. 🙂 This book was his last, and frankly he was more than half off his rocker at this point. This excerpt in particular is not really a conclusion he drew, but rather just a sidenote thought on the ponderings of recuperation, which in turn was a sidenote to his discussion on the philosophies of his previous book, Zarathustra. The entire book is quite a rambling self-talk, but there are many little gems of his previously more stable mind. I consider this excerpt as one of them. I wish he had thought of it far sooner, so he could elaborate, but ah well. At least he got this much down on the paper. 🙂

  1. “I wish he had thought of it far sooner, so he could elaborate”
    What is interesting about it? Nietzsche is speaking of before the fall from perfect grace into man creatures by divine creatures of their choices that God transforms into a serpent — and so — Are you saying this is to deceive divine creatures so that they can be banished for there to be an implementation of plan hatched whereas God must sacrifice a perfect divine son by bringing about his birth as a man without sin in a world of sin — and having the ability to never disobey and yet these original divine creatures denied God’s commandments and came to know death as a result, so that the sacrificed son would die and then be raised from death into the perfect order… heaven == because its serpent personality could not hold anything against the son?

    • …no. I find it interesting to consider the possibility that the Christian God is also the Christian Satan. That God, after creating man in His image, and letting man wander the Garden for however long (since it is never stated), basically got bored, took rest and relaxation from doing said creating, and threw temptation into the mix by being temptation, and seeing what would come of it. This is not elaborated past that point, meaning I don’t know what the implications of God’s banishment of Adam and Eve would come in during this scenario. I simply find alternative perspectives on such things to be interesting to consider.

  2. The origin of satan is a bit of mystery to me. Perhaps satan existed prior to this universe — that really doesn’t strike me as true though — there are some verses in Revelations that seem to indicate so — probably not so, I think.

    • The typical Christian origin story I’ve heard is he is the fallen angel Lucifer, who became jealous of the attention God had for man. This is another aspect of the entire creation story which I have never fully understood. I’ve never found a concrete timeframe between when man is created, when Lucifer falls from God’s grace, and when man does the same. It is interesting because Lucifer falls on his own, and yet it is described that angels do not really have free will. They are basically never provided the capacity to choose evil, essentially what we would be if we were not sinful. And yet Lucifer does sin, become disobedient to God, and falls. There is just no clear context in which these entities can fit unless Satan existed before, alongside God, and the concept of Lucifer is not part of the real story. Again, this causes the issue of God’s omnipotence and position as the beginning of all things. Either God is the origin of Satan, or Satan is completely separate an entity from God, removing God’s state of all-power.

      I also fully realize that the Adam and Eve story, and so the story of the birth of Satan from Lucifer, can simply be metaphorical stories, not literal interpretations of spiritual history. Either way, I’ve never considered these stories to be very reliable. Frankly, I would consider sympathy toward Satan before sympathy toward God if the stories are more literal, as Satan is essentially put in the same position as we are, a position of good vs. evil. The only difference is Satan embraces the evil, forsaking God in God’s abandonment of him, while we, for no specific reason besides God’s selective preference of us over Satan, are again, presented with the cure for our ailment of sin.

      I’m sorry I make these comments so long. 🙂 There are so many facets to these discussions which I tap into as I consider one aspect, I can’t help but connect the different strings together.

      • the length is not a concern for me about the replies — if it isn’t interesting to you, say so, because I am not wanting to take up time from you — take you from your interests and commitments. I only originally wanted to know if the Nietzsche quote is a philosophical argument — it seems that isn’t but stimulates you to explore origins of good/evil.
        sure… satan is thought to be a leader of fallen divine angels — well, for me, Jesus brought the message of Christianity and I do appreciate that the Christian Churches — many as they are — decided to include stories in bibles even from the earlier covenants. However, as we know, science demonstrates easily that the universe came to be over billons of years — almost 14 billion years.
        I’ve been fascinated especially about how the universe works and what I accept about that seems to contradict the Genesis from the Old Testament and so on. So, I choose to mostly avoid discussion but yours is more philosophical and basic than biblical. I think that debating the Christian stories of the creation or the flood and so on isn’t helpful for either you or I and I’d prefer to discuss instead if a creator can be as described the God of Jesus — absolute love — or if God somehow had another side — a darker side. We neither of us will be able to prove what did or didn’t happen before the beginning of the physical universe. There is some progress that seems to support that the universe originates from a process in or from another dimension — the eleventh dimension (M Theory). However, that probably won’t help us immediately to discover more about the mind of God either.

        • I completely agree with you. My personal view on a possible god diety which may have such qualities from the Christian god such as omnipotence, all-power, and unconditional love, is a god which is outside the realms of good and evil. A neutral god, a god of pure peace and serenity which is the ommission of both good and evil. I believe that god allows us the experience of good and evil as tools of learning, like a child going to college and being allowed personal choice freedoms. There are no consequences from the parent if the child chooses to drink underage, or get too drunk when first coming of age. The parent may be disappointed that the child did not take the parent’s advices on life, but it is part of the growing process to make mistakes and pick one’s self back up. I believe this to be god, with no judgment, no jealousy, no wrathful punishment. I believe this god wishes us to be what we are, flawed beings experiencing good and evil for the sake of experience. Once our experience is over, we come to the greater realization of the universe and of god itself, the pure serendipity of peace which is god, and settle into a broader consciousness.

          Of course this is simply a speculation, a greatest dream if you will. I have personal experience which reinforces my belief for myself, but that doesn’t make it true. I’ll find out the real truth, and if I’m anywhere near it, when I die. That’s good enough for me for now.

  3. I have a similar belief. I do not believe that God carries out vengeance. How exactly it came to be that we are cut off from God is speculation and it seems to me that there is a reason that we do not know and cannot know. However, I believe as Christian that the Holy Spirit comes upon anyone that is repentant and believes in Jesus (the God that is described by Jesus). Jesus is an advocate for those — they then came into the light. I also believe that anyone that believes this even after what we accept as death is also able to repent and receive the same treatment to come into the light (God’s unconditional love). I do not know how it came to be that the first humans came to be on Earth, nor how instinctual drives came to be dividing us against one another and why we were predatory — these are the reasons for our savage thinking and for our territorial ways — our selfish narcissistic nature is a driving force from birth — however, anyone that works to be civilized eventually learns that compassion and empathy and true love bring greater blessings than material wealth or crime or drunkenness and other selfish (sinful) behaviors. I suppose God knew all that would occur. However, I suppose that people did not. I suppose that God said I love you but you can’t stay here and that people wrote that we are condemned to death even though it was by the choices that were made to disobey. This is what I suppose. As you say, we shall se what really is true in the end. Meantime, I think we easily agree that it is best to live in civilized and tolerant acceptance of conditions as they are and to do what we can to progress toward increasing civilities — as best we can.

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