You tell me a story with a moral. You tell me the story is true, and therefore the moral means something. The moral promises happiness if I follow the steps of the story. I tell you I know a different story with the same moral. My story has different steps, more vague, more malleable, and this appeals to me. I don’t know if the story is true or not, but I know that I like it better than yours. It’s just preference, it’s nothing personal against your story. You stick with yours, I’ll stick with mine and we’ll both get to the same moral at the end. No harm done.
You tell me my story isn’t worth reading, because it’s not true. I can’t actually enjoy my story the way you enjoy yours. I’m just not reading your story right to understand. My story is not credible like yours is, so it must not have the same moral, really. In fact, my moral isn’t a moral at all, it’s just a mush of assumptions I make after reading my story. My story isn’t even printed on paper, it’s just in my head, so what is it worth? Yours is published, so it must be better. The steps of my story don’t match the steps of yours, so they must be wrong, and they can’t lead me to the same moral. That’s just not possible. Your story offers so much more structure, more rigidity, it must be better than mine. Your story’s moral is more exact and defined, while mine is general and basic, so yours must be more credible. I should throw my story away and just read yours from now on until I love it as much as you do, and then I’ll never need another story again.
…Now, take all uses of ‘story’ and replace them with ‘belief,’ and every use of ‘moral’ with ‘god.’ See where I’m coming from now?
Virginia the Viruliferous 
Well done. Well done.
Thanks. Was having another long conversation with a ‘real’ Christian, and it got to be such a back and forth I had to get something out. I posted something similar to him, but actually telling it like it was, not the ‘story’ replacement. I’m hoping he gets it just a little bit, and doesn’t come back with a, “But I DO know I’m more right than you are.” -.- I can only hope.
Some of the best conversations I have ever had were with religious people. I love the give and take that occurs in those conversations. But, as you can sympathize with, I simply cannot tolerate the idea that their belief system is the only, the best, the whatever. I love that people have different belief systems. Just skip the superiority and we’d be fine.
Absolutely agree. I think one of the most aggravating responses I get from religious people when I begin to get frustrated with their ‘my belief is truth’ line is when they say, “Well, if you weren’t searching for God, you wouldn’t be talking to me. Obviously, you’re searching for the proper direction to come to God, and I can do that for you!” -.- Why is it not possible to comprehend that I just want to learn about your belief for the sake of understanding it, accepting it as a possibility, and appreciating your view? Why does it always have to be that I’m not really happy, I’m not really content, I don’t know any better, this conversation is really a cry for help? UGH!
Sorry, got a little ranty. I’m getting tired, I ought to get to bed. XD
Well-stated rant. Thanks for sharing it. It’s called a closed mind, unfortunately. With a closed-mind, you don’t realize that other people have open minds. Or even what an open mind is.
Truth.
Oh, I loved that at the end! Definitely very well done!
🙂 Thanks. I’m glad most people who have read it can actually “see where I’m coming from.” I’m waiting for a certain regular to my blog to take a peek. He will very likely argue, and I will be interested to see how he presents his lack of understanding this time.
I truly have no idea how anyone could fail to understand or attempt to argue this one. You truly made the point quite perfectly I think!
Nicely done.
🙂 Thank you.
Well done, my head was trying to reach the conclusion you came to there (I caught on with the first sentence of paragraph 2), so I was glad to see it end that way 🙂
…some people ain’t worth the trouble, it’s like banging your head up against a brick wall. There is no comprehension there…
I see it as no empathy. I wrote a poem to that topic a couple days ago. I plan on writing a complete post about the decline/death of empathy, especially in regard to religious beliefs, and especially in general here in the West. I turns my stomach to think how dead empathy is, when to me, empathy is an aspect of humanity which separates us from animals, and for the better at that. We are the only creatures who can put ourselves into someone or something else’s shoes. How sad and even sickening that we are abandoning such a quality.
I see your point. People are so caught up in their own belief, their own neccessities, their own little bubble, that they just do not see anyone else’s perspective (religious or otherwise). I call these people shallow fuck’s. They have no use for you or anyone else beyond your perceived usefulness to them. Once you are no longer considered useful in anyway, you get ignored, or worse, screwed over in some fashion, because they all of a sudden have better things to do, or no longer see you as beneficial to their cause.
Empathy is practically non existent in these people, it doesn’t even enter this personality type but for fleeting moments, then it’s tossed aside like stale bread. I do my best to weed these people out of my life. Consequently I can count the “True Friends” I have on one hand, with a couple of digits left over. That’s allright by me. I look forward to your post on the issue.
Haha! I like your title for them. You know who is worse, though? The people that don’t let it go, who KNOW they can make you useful to them, they can make you change your ways and it’ll make them feel sooooooo good about themselves, they just don’t give up. I’ve been lucky, I know a lot of empathetic people, or at least empathetic about the subjects that really matter.
Rana,
When it comes to the belief department, you’ve said all that needs to be said. I’ve said this before and I REALLY do mean it – I WISH people who feel the need to have a religious impulse could adopt your way of thinking. I’m sure you know this by now, but the big difference between your belief and their belief is that embedded in their belief is the essence of the totalitarian. It’s in the Torah, it’s in the Bible, it’s in the Koran. Those who do not follow me (I’m speaking as god now) shall be put to death. Your hand must be the one that strikes the first blow. Show no pity because none is deserved. They are following the wrong god and must pay the ultimate price.
This is THE reason why there’s so much animosity, hatred and violence from the religious against anyone who doesn’t think what they think and believe what they believe, be they unbelievers, from other religions or from different sects within their own religion.
I wish you best of luck with this guy you are conversing with. However in my experience, when it comes to devout believers, it’s a very rare thing to see them acknowledge another viewpoint. I mean, case in point – how many conversations have you had with RT? Do you honestly think he sees where you are coming from? Do you think he gets you now? I don’t bother reading his posts but I dare say that if I had to guess, you’ve probably had the same conversation with him and explained the same thing to him at least 20 times by now, to absolutely no avail. In his mind, you just don’t get it Rana. You’re not seeing it the right way, the ONLY way – his way. When I first read the post, he’s the first person I thought of. It totally fits the bill with what I’ve seen from him to date. Anywho, thanks for the provocative post and can’t wait for the next one.
+1 !!!! Just can’t see saying it any better than that.
Thank you so much Ashley. I am humbled and honored. ^_^ I will say that at least with RT he knows when to just back off and let the topic settle for a while. The guy I’m talking to now, oooooh no. I’ve explained to him about 7 different ways why he’s wrong, not about his religious beliefs, but about me and about how he is presenting his views. I’ve seriously been trying not to respond anymore, but every reply he gives either is so unfounded I can’t help but attempt to correct him, or sound like ‘If you don’t respond, I’ve won,’ posts that I can’t allow myself to give him that satisfaction. I don’t mind the time wasted really, the lack of empathy and simple ignorance of my responses though. Man, it really works out the patience part of the brain, I’ll tell you that.
Hey Rana,
You’re very welcome. As for RT, he may know when to back off, but that doesn’t cause him to change his position. Both his and Geddy’s are the fundamentalist attitude. They’re right and everyone else who doesn’t think and believe and “know” what they do, are wrong. End of debate.
I understand completely about trying not to respond but getting sucked in anyways. It’s kind of human nature in us all. I feel like saying it’s the desire to win, but it’s really the desire to correct erroneous statements. For example, in my discussion with Geddy, I tried to convey that I happily concede that a god MAY exist (key word: may), it’s just that I don’t believe that this god has only revealed itself to a certain select group of people but not to me, that it intervenes and interacts with other people and not to me or that they have been miraculously endowed with some special divine knowledge and wisdom that’s been denied to me. The arguments presented to me “If you only listened the right way, you’re not looking in the right places, you’re not looking hard enough”, etc don’t hold any water with me. They are the kind of arguments that can be used to explain the existence of anything.
I was in a “discussion” of the sort that you’ve been in on another website. I looked through his website and read several posts. The entire website is essentially filled to the brim with logical fallacies and the most basic misunderstanding of what the word atheist even means. My “discussion” lasted about 20 posts or so until I just got completely fed up, called him a *&^%ing idiot and left. This guy had an answer for everything and an explanation for why all my objections were wrong, irrelevant or unfounded. Thus, I have come to the realization that there are people, that it doesn’t matter what you say to them, nothing will change. The best you can do when “discussing” with someone like that, is hope that the people who read through the “discussion” get some benefit from it and see through the false veneer of certainty that fundamentalists project. An explanation that appears to be the solution to everything, is an explanation that is the solution to absolutely nothing.